Go figure!!!!!

[il cavalino]

At the 2008 Plafity Nats I was told I couldn't race a Sunset Ferrari 350 Can Am because it was too wide and not a "scale" body. So had to race a Lancer bodies Ferrari instead.

The latest batch of scale bodies at Mobile Raceways which I am told are Ace bodies include a Porsche 917 which is about 5 mil wider than the "scale" Sunset 917 which we have been using for the past two years.

Go figure!!!


Geoff

[chadly]

some scale bodies ARE 80mm wide.
ill talk to Bob about it tomorrow!

[stoo23]

Hmmm,..???,..Those CanAm Ferraris Were DAMN wide cars in Real Life !

So just Who IS the 'Scale' Nazi with all the Manufacturers' Blueprints to 'Confirm' Scale anyway ???

Here's One,..off the Top of Your Head,..what would be the Outside Diameter of 13 and 15 inch wheels, fitted with Period Correct Goodyears ???
Ahh, but then the car Might have been fitted with Firestones !!,..lol

I'm beginning to think this Scale racing,..is for people who have Plastic Covers on the Lounge Furniture !!!,..

So what if you wanted to run a Replica of the 'Pink Pig' ???,..It WAS MUCH Wider than a Standard 917 !!

[chadly]

the Sunset Elfin T400, listed as an approved body, is actually to scale but is nowhere near 80mm wide!
Sunset do 3 versions of the 1970 Autocoast TI22.
A- original (modified to fit on an 80mm chassis)
B- with an upswept tail
C- with small side dams (looks same as the 3rd place Mark Fox car on the home page).

I wouldnt consider any of these versions to be "scale", (more Super Competition/Handeling Bodies), but they seem to be ok for Retro!
What's the go?

[stoo23]

Hmmm,..so that makes an Elfin T400 75.591 inches wide,...next time I'm standing next to one,..I'll Have to Measure it !,.. :)

With regard to the Ti-22 bodies,..well the One on Fox's car on the Home Page, would be at that Stage a JK and it Ain't even Close to Scale !!

The Reason those 'Handling Bodies' as such are legal for Retro, is that IS Exactly what style of car and era they are in effect Replicating,..in fact if you look at the Overseas rules that ours are Based on, it explains what bodies and era they are emulating.

In D3 the rules are Specific about the Source and age of the Body 'Mould' Used to create the later replica's, the US rules requiring that the cars 'Actually' raced in the CanAm series.

So in the States a Matich SR3 Would be Legal, whereas an SR4 would Not be,..

We aren't that Restrictive here !!

Plus we Aren't pretending they are even remotely accurate Replicas

[stoo23]

As an Example !!, (whilst in No way able to assuredly Verify the dimensions), a Porsche 917/20 'Pink Pig' by SERA, is 2,221mm wide and 4,000 long, that would be would be 92.6mm wide and 166.7mm long in 1/24th scale!!

Mind You,..THAT is the Body's Dimensions! As it was designed to in Theory and practice 'Remove' the Wheels from the Overall 'Aero' signature or envelope.

The Point being I guess that for it to be 'Scale' as such, the effective Track of the Car would Not be to the Edge or maximum width of the Body. Would That Not be the More Important Dimension ??

The Width of the Body alone is Not a Handling Advantage PerSe,...Getting the Wheels out Wider than Anyone Else Would be

For Myself,...this Scale Dilema, should be left to the Manufacturers of Scale Replica kits/models and should Not be an 'Issue' for the Common Racer attempting to Race a 'Slot Car' for Fun, Especially not with a body supposedly designed and suitable for That Process.

If a person has done a Great job preparing their car, making it LOOK correct or Recognisable withing what could be described as the 'Spirit' of the Era and has perhaps made Concours additions to increase the cars Replication of Reality, should it be Dis-allowed because it might be a Millimetre too Wide ??,..


Shades of Smokey Yunick !!!,..

[il cavalino]

Thanks for the info guys,

Does anyone know the correct dimensions for the Ferrari 350 Can Am.

Also where can we purchase the Porsche 996 bodies for use in the NSW Plafit champs this December

[chadly]

whole heartedly agree with you Stu. i was arguing Geoffs case but on closer inspection realised it wasn't a retro race he was talking about.

Bob has given me a list of 80mm wide super comp classic bodies he makes and i'll nag him for a list of suitable scale bodies too.
Should i email the list to Steve King? or who?

Bob also told me that he is prepared to make/modify cars with any good suggestions people have!
Aussie Retro should be about Aussie made bodies!

[SlotBaker]

I'm not sure who is the authoratitive group/person is for approving scale bodies, but there should be some sort of sanctioning process to deem if the bodies are suitable.

How about post the list and photo's, in a new thread for body approval??

What is the process to get new bodies added to the list, and who is the keeper of records?

[stoo23]

Hey Geoff,., with a 'Nick' like Cavallino, I would kind of figure You would be very aware of the Incredibly Scant and Probably Unreliable Specs on Any Ferrari !!!,..lol

Damn Hard trying to actually Find Specs like that,..I have NOT found any info on the 350 CanAm,..maybe call Scuderia veloce, David Mackay or Bill Brown !!,..I'll Keep looking,..

One Other Intrigeuing thing,..I have been trying to Find photos of the Blue and White Lola T160TS as used by Team Surtees,..so Far, I have NOT been able to find an actual 'Race' photo of that Car,..Only the Red and White one!,...

Ofcourse the Other not Inconsequential thing regarding Ferrari CanAm cars, was they were Continuosly Evolving,..like Try and Find Two Photos of the Same Ferrari 612,..that Show Exactly the Same Car !!,..and Those Puppies WERE Real WIDE !!

So One would Probably have to Argue just Which Round the car Actually raced That way in !!,..lol

[stoo23]

Just after saying I couldn't find any info,..Here Ya Go,..verified as well as Possible, by finding the same Dimensions, on Two Sites.

Ferrari 350 CanAm
Body;
Length / Width / Height
3950 mm (155.5 in) / 1995 mm (78.5 in) / 940 mm (37 in)

Chassis;
Wheelbase / Track (fr / r)
2400 mm (94.5 in) / 1488 mm (58.6 in) / 1450 mm (57.1 in)

Hmmm,..I make That 83.08mm Wide in 1/24th !!!


As far as I can tell,..a Porsche 917K, was 78" wide, that ending up being 82.55mm.

I have a Very Old Sunset 917K marked on the back 1989 , That measures about 78mm across the front guards and would I guess be just slightly under 82mm across the Rear Deck when cut and mounted.

Don't know if it is the Same as is made now.

[stoo23]

You know,..you'd have to say this IS a somewhat 'Moot' point anyway,..as having had a 'Glance' over the 2009 Australian PlaFit rules,..it would seem the Body choice has been clearly 'defined', as to Brands that are 'Homologated',..sigh,..Lancer Bodies even !!!,..They would have to be Re-Pops, Unless someone is prepared to 'Race' an Original !!
Tom Anderson Bodies,..Probably the Most to scale out of the Bunch.

So unless someone has 'Carved' themselves some New Original renditions, many of these 'Current' bodies would be 'Back Pours from 'Someone's Shell from the Past and as it Really Has been a Long, Long time since either the Poms or Yanks actually Raced 'True to Scale' lexan bodied cars, one would possibly question the absolute Scale accuracy of Many of them.

I'd be More worried about How to Fit the required Wheel Diameters under some of those bodies !!

With the exception of Tom Anderson's bodies, Obviously Sunset and Lancer, I have Not heard or am aware of the Other Bodies on that list. Obviously the Scale/Plafit guys are aware !!,..lol

One would think some of the Current and Past Betta bodies would be eminently suitable and probably HowmetTX's bodies.

One would also think that Victor ar True Scale would be interested in some 'True Scale' Replicas !!,..lol

Electric Dreams has occasionally mentioned Re-Pops of some of the MESAC bodies, like the 917LH, which were from my Memory Very Accurate Scale bodies.



Also found this 'link',
http://www.racegoodyear.com/tires/sports.html
to the GoodYear Racing 'Eagle' Sports Car series of Tyres, (the pdf has dimensions listed).

As an Example, the Spec's of the G19 Tyres, (a 15" Slick suitable for CanAm cars) is as follows;
the 23.0x10.5-15, is 23.4" in Diameter, with a Section Width of 11.8" and a Tread Width of 10.4"
the 27.0x14.0-15, is 27.0" in Diameter, with a Section Width of 18.5" and a Tread Width of 14.8"

That works out at;
24.77mm for the 23.4" tyre's Dia and 28.58mm Dia for the 27" Tyre,..Bigger than Ya'd think Huh !!??
an overall Width of 12.49mm and 19.58mm respectively,..Wider as well eh!?

A 13" Rim, is 13.76mm and the 15" 15.88mm, with the 10" and 17" recommended Rim Widths being 10.58mm and 17.99mm

[chadly]

I have put a list of suitable S/C bodys for retro's in the retro forum. I'll paint them all up and post pics of them soon!
Thanks guys.

[stoo23]

Hey, as someone posted on SlotBlog and as I had been looking at some of the DSC cars shown on Jens Scale Racing site,
http://66.102.11.132/translate_c?hl=en& ... QWdbn7pNjQ

There Are some Extremely Beautiful 'Kits' available from Fein Design, this Lotus 40 being but One example,..see here for Details;
http://www.fein-design-modell.de/index.html
http://slotblog.net/index.php?showtopic=9727&hl=

There seems to be quite a number of Matich SR3's in the championship and if I'm Not wrong, one of The Most amazing examples was built here !!

Also one would have to say the Scale Retro F1's that Nils, aka "Neckcheese" builds and runs, are also Very Nice, see here;
http://www.racecars.dk/ and here; http://slotblog.net/index.php?showtopic=7760&st=0

A couple of 'Teasers'

All the 'Usual' stuff, like Real Rivet Heads etc.

As is 'Noted' in the SlotBlog 'posts', racing and especial;ly 'Marshalling' of these cars IS taken very Seriously, to avoid Destruction and it's Nice that the Intent is to Create the Correct Scale 'Impression' on a 'Livery' and detail Ideal, without being Overly 'Anal' about the Absolute dimensions.

A field of cars like this Must Look Great,..Damn lot of Work though !!

[stoo23]

Now This IS a Damn Fine set of injector Trumpets and manifold !!!