Our Bodies...
Our Bodies...
While were on the subject of changing things,lets consider our bodies.Now every ones going around with a great shape and profile these days and looking good at the time,but I always get the feeling it all looks the same.So I could carry on with a lot of guff about how good we look and how effective our bodies are or just say Lets Get Rid Of TI22s and go for something with a bit STYLE.lUV YUSE ALL,Brad.
Re: Our Bodies...
You Know,.. You REALLY Should be Careful,..in Starting ANY talk regarding BODIES !!!!,... 
In a Class, (CanAm), where Almost Anything Was 'Possible' the TI, was Far from the Most Radical, BUT Atleast Some of the Current Reproductions, do a reasonable Job of Looking like the Real thing,... UNLIKE Some of the Newer F1 Bodies currently being Used !!
It is EXTREMELY Difficult to even Guess What Car the Body is even Trying to Look like and there was Never an F1 Car that Actually Looked Like that !!
Similar,..Perhaps, but,... much like many/Most of the JK Retro bodies,..are Way Off in shape/proportions etc.
From the Previous and Original Body 'Lists',.. pretty Much ALL of the Listed F1 bodies,.. JUST as the Rules 'Defined', were Reproductions of Bodies that WERE,.. Actually Used,.. Back in the Day and also did more than a reasonable job of actually looking like the car they were attempting to reproduce.
NO Parma or JK Body, was EVER around in That ERA and if one is being particularly 'Anal' about the interpretation of the Rules, then UNLESS,..Specifically Included in the 'List' of Approved Bodies,..Would, in theory, be Illegal !!,.. 
There Are Some Newer F1 bodies that actually Do a reasonable job of attempting to look like the cars of the time,.. but I Really DO believe some consensus / discussion needs to be had regarding all of this,... especially as it would seem the Rules have acquired some changes recently,.. seemingly all by themselves !!!,.. lol
Whilst you May NOT Like it,.. atleast the Long Nosed MAC TI body,.. WAS available, back in the day, although, THEN, was NOT actually that Popular with the US Pro's at the Time.
Perhaps also Due to it's Real Life Popularity, McLaren M8's Were often the Body of choice, as the Original 'Waters' Champion body, Was and Is a Rather Realistic Looking and Good Handling Body. Races,.. in the day, MAY have been ALL McLarens !!
Anyway,.. a Lot seems to have been 'Allowed' to Just sort of 'Slip Through' the Cracks of simple Fun Racing at times,.. Like the Increase in Overall Width Dimensions,.. Caused by arguably a Lack of Forethought regarding 'Alternate' equipment 'Choice',.. 
A BIG Problem I Have,... is the Ongoing and seemingly Increasing Use of Bodies that are NOT "10 Thou" !!
It's Quite Simple,.. it's In the Rules !!,.. 7 Thou', is NOT Legal !!
I understand your Visual Dilemna Brad,.. but as was the Real Life Case in CanAm with the ongoing success of the McLarens AND the fact you could Buy one,.. Real CanAm was a McLaren Fest !!
Sure, there Were other cars,.. but there were a whole Bunch of McLarens,.. ,.. then Porsches,..
The Same 'Issue' occurred with the Plafit CanAm / Sports class, when the Matich SR3 similarly 'Dominated' the fields as with Our Ti's,..
Racers, being Racers,..will invariably 'Navigate' their way to,.. the Most Effective 'Kit',.. lol
Point 'taken' though and I CAN assure you that in your Dislike of the Ti's, you are Not alone,.. but would Have to suggest,..it Ain't going to Happen,.. lol
I mean we Aren't Racing 'Scale' cars,.. the Class as such, IS about the Building and RACING,.. NOT the Appearance,.. ,....
I was actually thinking Moving to using the HAWK Retro Motor Everywhere would seem Possible, having Now tried it around HSC !!
Now THAT would Certainly Pick the Pace up Considerably !!,... Perhaps then,........
Needing TI's to Handle the Extra Power !!!,..
Cheers,
Stoo
In a Class, (CanAm), where Almost Anything Was 'Possible' the TI, was Far from the Most Radical, BUT Atleast Some of the Current Reproductions, do a reasonable Job of Looking like the Real thing,... UNLIKE Some of the Newer F1 Bodies currently being Used !!
It is EXTREMELY Difficult to even Guess What Car the Body is even Trying to Look like and there was Never an F1 Car that Actually Looked Like that !!
Similar,..Perhaps, but,... much like many/Most of the JK Retro bodies,..are Way Off in shape/proportions etc.
From the Previous and Original Body 'Lists',.. pretty Much ALL of the Listed F1 bodies,.. JUST as the Rules 'Defined', were Reproductions of Bodies that WERE,.. Actually Used,.. Back in the Day and also did more than a reasonable job of actually looking like the car they were attempting to reproduce.
NO Parma or JK Body, was EVER around in That ERA and if one is being particularly 'Anal' about the interpretation of the Rules, then UNLESS,..Specifically Included in the 'List' of Approved Bodies,..Would, in theory, be Illegal !!,..
There Are Some Newer F1 bodies that actually Do a reasonable job of attempting to look like the cars of the time,.. but I Really DO believe some consensus / discussion needs to be had regarding all of this,... especially as it would seem the Rules have acquired some changes recently,.. seemingly all by themselves !!!,.. lol
Whilst you May NOT Like it,.. atleast the Long Nosed MAC TI body,.. WAS available, back in the day, although, THEN, was NOT actually that Popular with the US Pro's at the Time.
Perhaps also Due to it's Real Life Popularity, McLaren M8's Were often the Body of choice, as the Original 'Waters' Champion body, Was and Is a Rather Realistic Looking and Good Handling Body. Races,.. in the day, MAY have been ALL McLarens !!
Anyway,.. a Lot seems to have been 'Allowed' to Just sort of 'Slip Through' the Cracks of simple Fun Racing at times,.. Like the Increase in Overall Width Dimensions,.. Caused by arguably a Lack of Forethought regarding 'Alternate' equipment 'Choice',..
A BIG Problem I Have,... is the Ongoing and seemingly Increasing Use of Bodies that are NOT "10 Thou" !!
It's Quite Simple,.. it's In the Rules !!,.. 7 Thou', is NOT Legal !!
I understand your Visual Dilemna Brad,.. but as was the Real Life Case in CanAm with the ongoing success of the McLarens AND the fact you could Buy one,.. Real CanAm was a McLaren Fest !!
Sure, there Were other cars,.. but there were a whole Bunch of McLarens,..
,.. then Porsches,.. The Same 'Issue' occurred with the Plafit CanAm / Sports class, when the Matich SR3 similarly 'Dominated' the fields as with Our Ti's,..
Racers, being Racers,..will invariably 'Navigate' their way to,.. the Most Effective 'Kit',.. lol
Point 'taken' though and I CAN assure you that in your Dislike of the Ti's, you are Not alone,.. but would Have to suggest,..it Ain't going to Happen,.. lol
I mean we Aren't Racing 'Scale' cars,.. the Class as such, IS about the Building and RACING,.. NOT the Appearance,..
,....I was actually thinking Moving to using the HAWK Retro Motor Everywhere would seem Possible, having Now tried it around HSC !!
Now THAT would Certainly Pick the Pace up Considerably !!,... Perhaps then,........
Needing TI's to Handle the Extra Power !!!,..
Cheers,
Stoo
Re: Our Bodies...
Great stuff Stoo,I dont intend to disagree with logic like that because I can only type with one finger.But now I have your attention whats wrong with putting bearings in our Retros?I can only compere the yes and no vote this way.A plafit car was a good example of bearings doing a damn good job.They sure did roll a lot better than one with oilites, in fact it was seen as a must.Now surely with these little motors any assistance given by way of reducing the friction factor,or whatever it is,can only be help to everyone.As far as cost goes ,WHAT COST?.As a matter of fact I hope we will be running bearings in every class using throw-away motors,especially with one brand of motor Where quality goes downhill fairly regular.These things need all the help they can get.RUN COOL-RUN RELIABLE,Regards BRAD. (With smiles)
Re: Our Bodies...
Well,.. I think you Should look at what was discussed in the thread About Bearings/Bushings.
As to Plafit cars 'Requiring' them,.. I'd Have to argue,..Not Necessarily So.
Many people interstate, ran Plafit cars Without Bearings,.. BUT,..it Required Great Precision and Very Careful Setup, to make sure the bushings were Well aligned etc,.. something Some people could Barely get right even with Ball Bearings !!!
PLUS,.. as perhaps an example, I actually HAD to replace a Number of sets of 'Especially' front Bearings and even rears in My 1300 chassis cars, over the years I raced them, which was Far Less than ANY of my Retro cars and I am ONLY Now thinking about changing out the Bushes in the Retro cars.
Rear axles Spin pretty Freely and Heck,.. My Cars have never seemed to have any 'issues' with Rolling !!!,.. .
It has yet to actually be Proven that BB's Would in fact be Faster,.. and they Certainly Aren't Cheaper,..especially in the Long term !!
So do we Now Also have to consider running BB's in Flexis, Utes, GT-1's, 4.5" Nascars, etc, etc,..somehow I very much doubt it.
There is a LOT of Good things to say about a Stable Class and Rules !!
As to Plafit cars 'Requiring' them,.. I'd Have to argue,..Not Necessarily So.
Many people interstate, ran Plafit cars Without Bearings,.. BUT,..it Required Great Precision and Very Careful Setup, to make sure the bushings were Well aligned etc,.. something Some people could Barely get right even with Ball Bearings !!!
PLUS,.. as perhaps an example, I actually HAD to replace a Number of sets of 'Especially' front Bearings and even rears in My 1300 chassis cars, over the years I raced them, which was Far Less than ANY of my Retro cars and I am ONLY Now thinking about changing out the Bushes in the Retro cars.
Rear axles Spin pretty Freely and Heck,.. My Cars have never seemed to have any 'issues' with Rolling !!!,..
.It has yet to actually be Proven that BB's Would in fact be Faster,.. and they Certainly Aren't Cheaper,..especially in the Long term !!
So do we Now Also have to consider running BB's in Flexis, Utes, GT-1's, 4.5" Nascars, etc, etc,..somehow I very much doubt it.
There is a LOT of Good things to say about a Stable Class and Rules !!
Re: Our Bodies...
Hi Stoo,I guess what I mean by rolling is there must be less friction and therefore a bit easier on the motor.I agree on the setting up of the bearings though,I use a jig for straightening cheetah 11,s myself,and some axles are very,very snug in the bearing.I guess my beef is really with that certain brand of motor as the Plafit quality seems to remain fairly strong.I dont expect to much from them,just 3 or 4 races ,not 1 or 2 like I get sometimes.Like you said,a stable class,but can they be stable with motors of dubious quality.This is NOT having a go those who sell them,only those make them.But back to Retros,how about an enduro,can-am naturally,about 4hrs,havent had one yet have we?On the flat track of course.I will speak to James & see what he thinks.Always appreciate your advice,Regards Brad.BRAKE SMOOTH-BRAKE DEEP.
Re: Our Bodies...
There have been at least 2, 2 hour enduro's at HSC, but a long time ago.brady wrote:But back to Retros,how about an enduro,can-am naturally,about 4hrs,havent had one yet have we?
27th September 2008
1st November 2008
A longer one would be cool.
Steve King
Re: Our Bodies...
Well we started with bodies on this thread and then seemed to branch out all over the place - like some of our (and certainly mine) bodies.
Can't see any use whatsoever in banning the TI - the next 'fastest' body would then just gain ascension and we would all again be looking the same - but different
Done the bearings to death in a previous thread - nothing more to say other than there is nothing to fix here.
The motor reliability thing is interesting as I generally get at least 4-5 races per Cheetah 11 and have had some with many more - moving to the Retro Hawk on the HSC Road Course would - in my opinion - kill the class as I really do not think that there are enough drivers that could navigate them with Retro Hawks on this track - self included.
As far as the rules go - remember - it is about having fun. The additional width was to accommodate JK rears on cars originally built to spec with Alpha rears. The JK rears being slightly wider then made these cars too wide. The rule change was needed so as not to disenfranchise those who did not have the skill (or inclination) to narrow the rear end to take JK hubs and still be legal. No big deal - they could continue to have fun and Alpha hub users could use a spacer to get the extra one and a bit mm of rear track if they wanted.
Remember the fun element - I think that it is the major part of the program. To get a feel of how it can go check out the SlotBlog site and have a look at the SCRRA rules at http://slotblog.net/topic/36311-scrra-2 ... gulations/ (simple and clean) versus the IRRA rules at http://slotblog.net/topic/56349-2015-irra-rules/ (bring your own lawyer for this set). Keep in mind that the SCRRA boys started the whole thing off.
I reckon a couple of 2 hour enduros could be fun also - 4 hours is a bit long for me.
Can't see any use whatsoever in banning the TI - the next 'fastest' body would then just gain ascension and we would all again be looking the same - but different
Done the bearings to death in a previous thread - nothing more to say other than there is nothing to fix here.
The motor reliability thing is interesting as I generally get at least 4-5 races per Cheetah 11 and have had some with many more - moving to the Retro Hawk on the HSC Road Course would - in my opinion - kill the class as I really do not think that there are enough drivers that could navigate them with Retro Hawks on this track - self included.
As far as the rules go - remember - it is about having fun. The additional width was to accommodate JK rears on cars originally built to spec with Alpha rears. The JK rears being slightly wider then made these cars too wide. The rule change was needed so as not to disenfranchise those who did not have the skill (or inclination) to narrow the rear end to take JK hubs and still be legal. No big deal - they could continue to have fun and Alpha hub users could use a spacer to get the extra one and a bit mm of rear track if they wanted.
Remember the fun element - I think that it is the major part of the program. To get a feel of how it can go check out the SlotBlog site and have a look at the SCRRA rules at http://slotblog.net/topic/36311-scrra-2 ... gulations/ (simple and clean) versus the IRRA rules at http://slotblog.net/topic/56349-2015-irra-rules/ (bring your own lawyer for this set). Keep in mind that the SCRRA boys started the whole thing off.
I reckon a couple of 2 hour enduros could be fun also - 4 hours is a bit long for me.
Regards - Mark 
"Do Less with More Focus"
"Do Less with More Focus"
Re: Our Bodies...
Aussie Retro regs were originally adapted from the IRRA regs, as they had a bit more flexibility at the time, but as more and more nit pickers pushed the limits, those regs have evolved into a more complicated package.
The very first Retro regs were put together under the "D3" banner, and was intended to be a more purist and very regulated class. Eventually the unrest within the group caused fragmentation, and "D3" pretty much dissappeared, being replaced by the SCCRA.
It is dissappointing that the Ti22 is the dominent body, and as Mark said, it's not going anywhere as it's a complying body. There are a few versions; Long nose; Short nose, Long tail, and Short tail.
All of them seem to work pretty well.
A possibility for a variance in bodies used could be determined by race regs per individual event.
eg, have a 2 hour enduro for approved bodies, other than Ti22 variences?
The very first Retro regs were put together under the "D3" banner, and was intended to be a more purist and very regulated class. Eventually the unrest within the group caused fragmentation, and "D3" pretty much dissappeared, being replaced by the SCCRA.
It is dissappointing that the Ti22 is the dominent body, and as Mark said, it's not going anywhere as it's a complying body. There are a few versions; Long nose; Short nose, Long tail, and Short tail.
All of them seem to work pretty well.
A possibility for a variance in bodies used could be determined by race regs per individual event.
eg, have a 2 hour enduro for approved bodies, other than Ti22 variences?
Steve King
Re: Our Bodies...
I don't really see it as a problem that most (if not all) racers choose to use the same body which is perceived to be the best. The TI also happens to be a really fine looking car and this also does it no harm as a racers pick.
As I said earlier if the TI were to be made ineligible for whatever reason it would achieve absolutely nothing - the next 'best' body would then grace the grid (I reckon the Maclaren Mk 8 would definitely be in the mix). What would be the point of this?
Remember the class is all about building (or purchasing as the case may be) a sixties style slot-car chassis - putting an inexpensive sealed motor in same - anointing it with some version of an 'approved' body and then taking it to the track and racing it to the death with a bunch of like-minded people.
Does it matter what body is used?, what colour it is painted?, No and No and No (one spare 'No' here).
See you all at the Aussie Retro Nats at HSC later this month (FYI I will be driving my Florescent Pink TI 22 ).
As I said earlier if the TI were to be made ineligible for whatever reason it would achieve absolutely nothing - the next 'best' body would then grace the grid (I reckon the Maclaren Mk 8 would definitely be in the mix). What would be the point of this?
Remember the class is all about building (or purchasing as the case may be) a sixties style slot-car chassis - putting an inexpensive sealed motor in same - anointing it with some version of an 'approved' body and then taking it to the track and racing it to the death with a bunch of like-minded people.
Does it matter what body is used?, what colour it is painted?, No and No and No (one spare 'No' here).
See you all at the Aussie Retro Nats at HSC later this month (FYI I will be driving my Florescent Pink TI 22
).Regards - Mark
"Do Less with More Focus"
"Do Less with More Focus"
Re: Our Bodies...
Hey, with the car I have been using at Hornsby, it is the same car that I brought over from the U.S - JK Kit thing - while I did build a new car for Wayne's track and I have tried other chassis's - I still seem to be with the JK car. And as such the same body.
What I like about Retro, is that I can race a car leave it sit for months on end and then come out and race again without needing to do lots of preparation. So the body I am using now dates to 2009.
What I like about Retro, is that I can race a car leave it sit for months on end and then come out and race again without needing to do lots of preparation. So the body I am using now dates to 2009.
Re: Our Bodies...
Hi Lindsay,
Thanks - pretty much my point - keep enjoying the racing.
I keep building the odd (sometimes very odd) car because that's what I like doing - I absolutely would not be bothered if it was not a scratch built class or if I had to f----k around with motors - been there - done that - and over it.
But importantly not over building and racing my little cars.
We all have (in the main) been around for a while and I love it that we are still enjoying our hobby.
Still just as amazing - I think it's really interesting that if you have two slot racers in a room you can have a minimum of 17 opinions on any given slot racing topic.
Keep it up fellow racers.
Thanks - pretty much my point - keep enjoying the racing.
I keep building the odd (sometimes very odd) car because that's what I like doing - I absolutely would not be bothered if it was not a scratch built class or if I had to f----k around with motors - been there - done that - and over it.
But importantly not over building and racing my little cars.
We all have (in the main) been around for a while and I love it that we are still enjoying our hobby.
Still just as amazing - I think it's really interesting that if you have two slot racers in a room you can have a minimum of 17 opinions on any given slot racing topic.
Keep it up fellow racers.
Regards - Mark
"Do Less with More Focus"
"Do Less with More Focus"
Re: Our Bodies...
Hello everybody.Mark,I would like to explain my position.The body thing was just a style thing,the Ti looks like a Late Model Dirt Car to me.I dont care how fast they are.The bearing thing I thought might help the reliability or longevity of the motors,again I dont care how fast they are.I think most are happy with the setup on the flat track. Would not change it for quids,and I do realise I can use any body (RETRO that is)on the list.But it doesnt hurt to ask,thats how you learn.how do you get these smiley faces on here?MAJORITY RULES,REGARDS BRAD.
Re: Our Bodies...
Thats great Lindsay but you have to agree there is a bit of difference in using them once or twice a month to using them once every 6 months,BRAD.
Re: Our Bodies...
Hi guys
Who recalls the Outisight Lemans coupe? GP12,GP20 and Open all using the same body. I think there might have been meets with more than a hundred Coupes. If there was something faster we would have used it. Same with the TI22.
I worry about changing things in Retro. To me it seems like a good set of rules. None of the the changes suggested are aimed at getting more racers. BB's Hawk Retro and bodies included. If BB's were made legal I would have them in a heart beat. Would I suddenly be winning races? I dont think so.
Every time I buy a new motor I am disappointed, as it is not faster than the one I am replacing.
Please think of ways to get more racers.
I like the idea of an enduro. With my bad back and knees 2 hours sounds good.
I have fond memories of an 8 hour Enduro series with the late Ian Bannister and Tony Bovard racing in my team. Racing against guys like Greg Erskine and Toby Lee. I think we raced at about 4 tracks. 1 hour brackets, no driver changes and Open Motors.
We were men back then !!!
Cheers
Neil
Who recalls the Outisight Lemans coupe? GP12,GP20 and Open all using the same body. I think there might have been meets with more than a hundred Coupes. If there was something faster we would have used it. Same with the TI22.
I worry about changing things in Retro. To me it seems like a good set of rules. None of the the changes suggested are aimed at getting more racers. BB's Hawk Retro and bodies included. If BB's were made legal I would have them in a heart beat. Would I suddenly be winning races? I dont think so.
Every time I buy a new motor I am disappointed, as it is not faster than the one I am replacing.
Please think of ways to get more racers.
I like the idea of an enduro. With my bad back and knees 2 hours sounds good.
I have fond memories of an 8 hour Enduro series with the late Ian Bannister and Tony Bovard racing in my team. Racing against guys like Greg Erskine and Toby Lee. I think we raced at about 4 tracks. 1 hour brackets, no driver changes and Open Motors.
We were men back then !!!
Cheers
Neil