Ball Bearings - Axle thoughts

[lindsayb]

At the wing nats in April - we voted to allow axle ball bearings in all classes, the reason for this was that with the cost of ball races (chinesse) now vs the cost of the bronze bush - making a ball race a better option. Axles and gears were seen to suffer more with a bush than a ball race.

Has anyone had any thoughts about doing the same for retro cars. The U.S has allowed ball races in retros for the last 10 years.

Does anyone have any opinions for and against

[Timmy Tyler]

I think it's a good idea. BB are easier to set up, and much longer lasting. I really don't understand why we've persisted with bushings for such a long time.

Big Thumbs Up.

[stoo23]

Hi guys,.. whilst I can also,.. (In Theory), and Would Normally agree I Have to say I cannot realistically see How this could actually be of any Real Benefit to the Retro Class.

Partly, due to the Style of construction, ie' Motor Box / Axle Carrier in One unit, there is Little difficulty if at all in setting up and maintaining the Bushing/Axle combination.

If one uses as an example, ANY /ALL of MY cars,.. as fitted with the Slick 7 Bushes,.. I have actually had cause to change the Koford rear axle in All my cars a number of times over the life span of my current cars.

As is probably reasonably well known,.. in CanAm as an example, I have been running the Same Chassis, since not long after getting into Retro racing,.. ??? 5 ?,... 6 ?? years ??,.. (Yeah,.. I Know I probably need to build another one at some stage),.. but 'Old Faithful', is Still an Extremely competitive chassis, as are Both of my F1 chassis,.. All of which Have done their Fair Share of Racing, being loaned to others, Winning and Placing and setting of fastest laps, etc,..

AND I Have YET to even THINK about changing the Bushes !!!!

Mechanically, there is NO Need !!,.. there IS NO Play !!

Although, I Will Have to put a New 'Set' in soon, as the Axle washers, Have 'Worn' the Flat bearing face slightly.

What can I say,.. those Slick 7 Bushings, within the realm of Retro,.. Are Truly awesome,.. and that is Also with All those years of the inevitable hard Crash and Wall Shot etc.
Would a Cheap Chinese Ball Bearing set STILL Be Play Free and Undamaged into it's Fifth or Sixth Year of regular and consistent running ???
Somehow,.. I think perhaps Not.

The same Longevity and experiences regarding the Slick 7 Bushes, have Also often been reported and commented on on Slot Blog many times.
I think you will Also find this to be the case with virtually Everyone's Retro cars fitted with those Bushings.

A Truly Perfect case of Not Needing to 'fix' something that is a Very Very long way from even being remotely Broken,..

[Timmy Tyler]

Stu, I think you might be right. It ain't broke, and there may indeed be no need to fix it.

[stoo23]

,.. Mind you,.. that being said,.. Having Never Tried it (as a Back to Back comparison), there MAY be an 'argument' for BB's at a track like Raceworld, and perhaps similarly to Your F1 (as loaned recently to Fox), and as Many also run in the US,.. Front Wheels with bearings / Bushes etc,..

In fact have also started a chassis with a 'Bushed' front end.

Though, around Raceworld, there Is also the possibility of Much Higher Speed, Possible BB damaging Crashes !!??

I think there would still be Axle Wear with the BB's, as with the S7 Bushes and it's Not like the Rear Axle doesn't 'Spin' Freely in the Bushes,.. they Are Truly Surprising. ordinary 'oilites', would Also have 'typically' Worn the axle and have worn out themselves, many times over the years,..lol

It's a 'Difficult',.. possible Option / Change to the Rules,.. of What has been a rather delightfully Stable and arguably rather Popular Class, that has, from the Outset, provided some Amazingly Fun and Enjoyable racing, with a Fairly Low ongoing maintenance requirement,..lol

Would be good I guess to Test and Prove or Dis-prove the theoretical Advantages/Dis-advantages, Performance-wise atleast,..

[neiljb]

Is retro broken?
But maybe if Mark, Cody, Daryl, Paul .......
Ok, every driver but me can't use the BB' s it would be a good idea.

[Mark Fox]

I vote a big fat NO on this idea.

As mentioned it ain't broke and the oilites have proved to be very effective and long lasting to date. As per Stoo's experience I have not had any measurable wear at all.

The problem with changing the specs at this stage is that all retro racers would then feel compelled to update their cars so as not to be 'disadvantaged'. This would involve time and expense - especially for those who are unable to do this for themselves (believe me this would be quite a few) and who would therefore need to pay to have it done.

Anything which has the slightest discouraging influence on racer participation is to be immediately discarded in my opinion - it's not as though there is a giant participation rate at any level of slot racing - even discouraging one participant is a big loss in my book.

Thus ends my 2 cents worth on this topic.

[dtslot]

I also vote NO ! I have found the oilites to be the last thing I need to worry about as to retro racing. As others have stated , they rarely need replacing if at all. For retros even with the faster motors we use at RACEWORLD there just isn't a problem or an advantage in my opinion.
So fixing ,changing ,modifying anything thats not a problem ,,,,leave it alone.

DARRYL.

[Timmy Tyler]

There seems to be a pretty consistent theme here!

For sure, BB result in better gear mesh and durability in the higher power/speed cars on King Tracks. However, nobody seems to be having any problem with oilites (or bushings) in their Retro. That makes sense, since we run lower power motors and use 48p gears (bigger teeth, less critical on setup).

There is one inconvenience of plain bearings, and that is if you buy a car from someone in the USofA it will have BB in it and you have to change them out. However, that seems a pretty small price to pay.

Seems like there's no harm in leaving things as they are.

[Mark Fox]

I think that (as Tim says) the consensus is for leaving things as they are.

As for USA built cars I have only seen a couple running around and it is defiantly less convenient to have all the non-USA cars changing to BB's than a couple of USA built cars changing to oilites.

As far as performance goes logic says that the BB's must deliver a slight advantage in speed as there is less friction BUT the oilites are pretty good - the last Retro race on Wayne's King saw a TQ of 3.88 and laps of 344 for Can-Am and TQ of 3.09 and laps of 335 for F1. This is very competitive in any analysis especially when we are sticking to a min weight of 100 grams as opposed to the fastest (and not by much) US and Japanese efforts with cars of around 90 grams or even less (we don't know if the track voltage is consistent across the board either of course).

[lindsayb]

Good discussion - seems concurrence is no change,

No issues from me with that.

[stoo23]

Yeah I think Wayne would tend to agree as well.

As has been suggested and 'Arguably' Agreed, it would be doubtful whether cars fitted with BB's Would be Any Quicker Anyway and as also suggested, probably Not being as Ultimately 'reliable/Crash' Proof !!,.. :D