As Charles has brought these points up in his 'Assumed' role of Devil's Advocate, I thought I Too would take this opportunity to reply, with I DO hope no 'Attitude or Malice' being perceived within the Framework of my comments.
And in No way an 'Attack" on or against Charles at all,..just simply that you brought these points up Charles,..I DO Hope you understand and don't take it as an Assault on yourself !!!,..
1. With the Touring Car Masters gathering strength in the Aussie 1:1 motoring world, how about a third class for this event making eligible bodies for the class being the cars raced in the TCM. I'm going to play the devils advocate here but make anglewinder chassis eligible for this class.
Perhaps I May be Alone in this, but even though I too CAN appreciate and was Around and used to attend races at Warwick Farm etc, When these 'Muscle' cars used to actually race, with the Likes of the aforementioned Geoghegan,... and possibly like Charles,..DID actually Race Sedan/Trans-Am style cars of that period,.."Back in the Day",..it was I MUST say though,..with some Very Good and arguably Excellent looking and Detailed Lexan bodies that were available Back then, from the likes of both Lancer and Dynamic.
Those bodies were superbly modelled and arguably pretty damned good Replicas of the Real cars and were Crisp in Molding and Detail,..something I must sadly say is NOT the case with the Incredibly 'Blob' like poorly made and Detail lacking 'Stretched Flexi oriented bodies currently available Locally.
I guess one should Also consider just What 'Period' of supposed 'Muscle Car' we are talking about here,..from My Own past and experiences, it was cars like AMC Javelins, Chevy Novas, Camaros and Mustangs etc,..Typically cars up to around say Early 1970's and invariably of US extraction.
I guess,..at a 'Stretch' and some Years Later,..we could possibly include some of the more Local product, but even though I used to Own a 'Bathurst' model LC Torana,..I NEVER thought of it as a 'Muscle Car' and perhaps arguably under the perceived definition of a Muscle Car am unsure IF it could Truly be described as one.
If we are talking of the Cars WE actually ran back then,..then cars like the Dodge Daytona and 'Superbird' Should be included,..as I know I definitely ran them, along with the Odd Javelin (We, as Team MURA ran one at one of the 8 hour Enduros I recall at Chester Hill once), and Mustang Fastbacks. So Some 'Cut-off' Date would Need to applied, else Many Far more Modern cars could be Included within the Loose 'Term' of "Muscle Car". Even within the framework of the Real 'Muscle Car Masters', it is somewhat difficult to 'Define' exactly which cars/bodies are theoretically allowable under the Broad Banner of Muscle Car,..is it a Classic, Group N, or Later ???
I'm sure this could be worked out,..but IMHO, the Currently available bodies in Australia,..are Truly awful and in some cases, if you were Not 'Informed' as to what the Body was 'Supposed' to be,..you would be Hard Pressed to Guess,...Unlike the bodies we raced 'In the Day'.
Plus Many of the theoretically 'Suitable' Sedan bodies are Very Short in the Nose and as can be seen by some of the cars currently running in Victoria, Many of them have the 'Guide' Protruding out the front of the Body which is something (Appearance Wise) I have Always Disliked and in my opinion, looks Awful !!
There are Many who feel that the CanAm cars are Blob like or Doorstop Wedges,..BUT Especially in Regard to the "TrueScale" and some Others, the bodies,..ARE in fact pretty damned good Replicas of the Cars that actually Raced back then,..(CanAm WAS Like that),...
I agree that perhaps the TI-22's are a bit exaggerated, but within the Framework of and 'Spirit' of the adopted Retro Rules, it is in Fact RETRO SLOT CARS, as Raced back then,..Especially the Bodies,..NOT Retro Model Car Racing and to be honest.
The Other concern, (especially at HSC), is that after the initial sort of 'Boom' that Retro had,..this Class HAS been somewhat 'Struggling' over the more recent past (although not Nearly as badly as the Plafit Series), to at times even Have a Full 8 car field turning up for the regular monthly races !!!
I have some concerns about a dilution of interest and attendance in the Current Inline Class, which has (it has to be agreed, provided some absolutely Fantastic racing over these past few years) !!!
The Numbers have only very recently been somewhat slightly 'boosted' by a few Keen 'New Faces' appearing.
We are ALL struggling financially of late,..(Well atleast I Am !!!), so I am worried about disrupting what has been at HSC atleast, an Incredibly good class of racing.
Heck,..there are currently SO MANY different classes to race at HSC and quite a few people are struggling to Maintain a decent presence in many of the classes,..Let alone the question Once again,..of WHO will be building All these arguably more difficult to build Anglewinders ???
Personally, I believe the Inclusion of the Current Slick7 designs are IMHO NOT appropriate, as they bear absolutely NO relevance or reference to the Style of car as run Back then and are theoretically a Truly Modern Semi EuroSport G12 style chassis,..A Flexi Car is More Appropriate in My Opinion and atleast it is Almost Old enough !!!
And what with the Rules as suggested/adopted by our Victorian Brethren, regarding Style and Size of Front and Rear Wheels, along with the Motor choice,..and the fact that the Bodies Are Stretched/Squashed to Suit Flexis, would seem to Me to be the Simplest and easiest concept,..Ahh,..but then it's Just Another Flexi Class Eh?,....Anyway,..once again,..I digress,..lol
2. The idea of awarding TQ to the fastest time in a semi or final was a great time saving idea, I was fortunate enough to be awarded this in CanAm.
Points (say 2) could be awarded under the scoring system for each class to add to the total.
With Regard to this,..I must say I am TOTALLY Against the Concept,...and NO Charles,..it is NOT because You beat me to the (Awarded) TQ Trophy the other day.
The Problem IS, that Qualifying Was and Should be Used to ascertain one's Position within the Starting 'Line Up' and Lane Choice, something perhaps Sadly Lacking from the Other night's racing. TQ is TQ,...Simple and Plain and In My opinion should Remain so and Only awarded If one actually Has Qualifying!
The argument for perhaps Calling it the Fastest race Lap in Theory Should be possible,..EXCEPT !!! for the Way the Lap Counters/Timers actually Work.
Having chatted to and just this evening 'Verified' the operation with Gary J, quite often, the 'Fastest' Lap of the Bracket, can be the Very FIRST Lap of the New Bracket,..either because the person has placed his car back on Ahead of where it Stopped, OR More Usually, Where his (or Her) car has Rolled to at the End of the Last Bracket, Especially if their car was powering along the straight when the power goes off.
I Do Know this to be True, because of How the Current program works and although I am often arguably Quick and Can turn the Odd Fast Lap, My cars quite Often DO Out Roll the competition and as long as they don't travel that Far as to make the Next 'First Lap' run Under the Set Cut Off time (as set by the Race Co-ordinator) when setting up the Race,..will Invariably Set the Fast Lap of that Bracket.
SURE,..it may Not ALWAYS be the case,..but it often will be and More importantly,..CAN be under the current method of the programs Operation,..so to actually 'Award' someone 'Extra Points' for this,..is in my and Gary's opinion,..Inappropriate. (We Have discussed the possibility of Including the Removal of this First Lap of the bracket "Feature"? from his New System, but as you can imagine, will NOT be altered with the Older Amiga based Systems). If the problem Is fixed in the New Johnson Sytems units,.then it Does make sense and Would be 'appropriate' to Award a fastest Race lap award.
I'm looking forward to next years event or maybe a restructured NSW Title for Retro along these lines.
Well,..Yes,..So am I, although perhaps Not in the Same way as yourself.
Considering the Geoghegan's ran both Sedans and Formula style cars, I tend to Agree with the 'Combined' concept as well as the Retro aspect.
Although with regard to the HSC Retro racing, I am beginning to Question whether we should Continue, with a 'Points' based Championship per se.
The Original 'Bunch' of D3 US racers that started this Retro class do Not Race for Points or a Championship as such,..Each Race is quite Simply,..Just that,..a Race,..All Done and Dusted 'On the Night',..period,..with Nothing Carrying Over to the Next race other than ones desire to Have Another Great Retro Race.
Initially, that is Also How WE raced Retro's,..No Championship OR Points,..Just a Damn good Fun Race 'On the Night' and personally,..I am 'In Favour' of this Idea,..as it Avoids the problem of people not running as the Year goes on,..Because of the Championship,..No Points,..No Sheep Stations,..Just Bragging rights at the end of the Race.
PLUS,..as it would seem that there are Some racers, who for whatever reason can not or decide Not to race at Every round, it makes Each and every race Fair for All and there can be No suggestion that certain people Should Not take Part in the ongoing Regular 'Championship' racing, as has appeared to have happened recently.
Personally I'd like to see as MANY runners as possible at EVERY round, No matter WHO they are or whether they will (in Theory), Win Every round,..Just Makes me want to Drive and Race Better to Try and Beat them !!
There are So Many Other Points Based Classes at HSC to run in, if Championships are your 'Thing',..and Even though a 'Championship Trophy IS Great to Win,..for myself and I'd Venture Many Other Retro Racers,..it Really Doesn't Matter to Us.
The Whole IDEA/SPIRIT of the Retro D3 racing was simply to have some Great racing with Your Mates and racing Buddies, with cars that (like We did),..Built Yourself,..Simple as that,..Great, Fun Racing,.."On the Night"
BTW, with racing this close it's crying out for a new Lap counting system.
Really???,..in what way??,..in what regard is the Current System Inadequate??
Anyway,..apart from being typically 'Long Winded' in my usual manner,..
I think that has 'Covered' the Various points raised and some others that I believed needed raising/commenting on.
Cheers and regards and may the Great Retro racing we have been having continue !!!
