Cobalt Zapping

[FC RACING]

Thunderdome Raceway now has the facility to fully zapp cobalt magnets we can reverse setups and zapp single segments not in a can
WE are also offering magnets repairs using Skinners epoxy
Same Day turn around on zapping setups.
Call us for prices on these services.
phone 07 49220585.
E_mail thunderdome01@dodo.com.au

[coaltrain]

How many Oesteds can it emit or what's it's max

[FC RACING]

There is no rating on the machine it's self perhaps Les will be able to me next time i talk to him

[coaltrain]

if it can do 40,000 Oesteds than I will be sending you my shit from here on so find out and dont lie to me
because I will be sending my Neo motors aswell

[il cavalino]

Hi Carl,

Didn't know your magnet zapper could zap human excretion as well.

Not sure why you would want to zap it though?????


Geoff

[stoo23]

Please,..May I ask Why Anyone would want to 'Reverse' the existing Polarity of a set of Cobalt magnets?? Or Any Anisotropic magnets for that matter.

Perhaps, for those that Aren't Aware of the manufacturing process, Most Magnets and here I am specifically discussing Cobalt, Neo Dymium and all of the various Matrix compounds, have a 'Specific' Magnetic 'Polarity' applied admittedly, much smaller than the final charge co-efficient, during manufacture.

This charge, is to 'Align' the Crystaline Matrix within the specific material, and to Create Anisotropy, so as to improve and to help maintain High Coercivity and also to aid in acheiving the materials possible maximum magnetic Flux.

As far as My own personal knowledge on this matter goes, (which was also confirmed by some Technical Magnetic experts I dealt with in the past when having My Own Neo Dymium/Iron/Boron magnets manufactured), the Only True method of Realignment, involves taking the Magnet material 'PAST' it's "Curie point", at which time, the existing crystaline alignment, becomes,.shall we say,..Loose, thereby allowing Magnetic Re-Alignment.

Without the Application of Extreme temperatures to Bring the magnets to their Curie Point, Real Reversal of Magnetic Coercivity/Polarity alignment, cannot Completely occur,..(well atleast NOT to the Possible Maximum and stability!).

I am almost positive that Many of you, will want to argue about this,..but Do your research and you may begin to understand what I am talking about,..somehow, I don't think the 'Techies' at Hitachi Metals,..are Wankers.

I,..perhaps look forward to your 'Range' of replies !!!,..rofl

[FC RACING]

Stoo the reason for reversing the polarity is if you have hemi wound arm and you want to use it in a car that is also going to use a motor that has a straight wound arm so the lead wire go in the same place.
But the most important reason is so you can repair and build multi magnet motors.ie one segment comes out the best way to repair it is turn the polarity of the loose segment so when you put it back it attracts to the magnets in the can instead of being repelled which makes it very hard to get the segment back in were is should.
once the segment is glued back in place you then need to zapp it to turn the segment back the way it should the same polarity as the ones that stayed in the can.
And when you build multi mag motors it is easier if when bonding the segment together they are glued in a north south north south arrangement so they attract once the segment are all glued together you glue them into the can you then must have the ability to reverse the polarity so one side is north and one is south.
it also helps to reverse them if you are trying to demagnetize them to get them out of can to repair a setup
THIS IS WHY YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO REVERSE TO POLARITY!!!

[stoo23]

Hmmm,..well,..Yes,..Thanks for that info, although I am aware of that Process, and the fact that people Are doing that sort of stuff.

Perhaps you may have 'Missed' MY point though,..(subtle as it possibly was , that being that one is actually 'Compromising' the 'Possible maximum effective Flux Density by actually doing that, because ALL Cobalt material, has a 'Specific' Charge Orientation applied to it during manufacture, so as to Align the Crystaline matrices whithin the Structure of the Material!

Possibly, unbelievably, these Crystaline matrices DO actually Move,..BUT, Not of their Own accord,..without quite some Heat and electromagnetic Influence.

What I am suggesting to you, is that Unless Large amounts of heat are applied to the Material During this Re-Polarisation, and that Temperature being Above the materials Curie Point, True Anisotropic Re-alignment does Not Completely happen,...Thus compromising the Maximum Coercive Flux density available from the material AND It's ability to Hold that Maximum charge over time under the influence of Demagnetizing Fields from the armature and Heat.

For those that Are 'Searching' for the Theoretical maximum Possible performance,...It IS an 'Issue' and I would almost Wager that a 'Properly aligned' Setup in the same persons hands and Car, say driven in Qualifying, Would Perform Better than a 'Mashed up' Re-Polarized setup.

Seriously worth consideration if you Are looking to Set the World on Fire!!!,..lol

I Can understand Why people do it for both Repair and Replace concepts,..But it is Far from Ideal !!

If one was Really trying to Build 'Killer' Setups,..one would start with material Not yet charged to it's maximum, for assembly and then Charge the Magnets correctly after the setup has been assembled, which, without a lot of research and finding the people that Can do this for you,..Correctly,..takes quite a bit of Work, time and effort.

BUT, as Cobalt does Not need the kind of Power to fully charge that Neo-Dymium and it's Matrixes requires, should Not be that Hard.

Who Knows,..then you May even be able to Get the Multi Segment motors Correctly 'Radially' charged,..something that is Not currently available from the standard Magnets available,..OR to even get Larger Single Magnets correctly Radially Charged, giving even Greater performance.

In regard to the Whole 'Change a Piece' scenario, one Should also 'consider' the angularity of the Initial Cut/versus polarity arrangement of the segments, as this would also have a possibly Less than Ideal 'Internal alignment, relative to the Desired angularity of the Face of the Combined segments.

I am being Strictly Technical here,..My Question was Posed as a 'Thought Generating' process, perhaps for those seeking 'The Ultimate', not the What will Do methodology.

I'm NOT trying to 'Upset' anyone,..perhaps just create some thoughtful consideration of the Scientific Facts.

As a further scientific reference,..see my 'post' here; http://forum.ascra.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=310

[keith]

Wow, I'm upset that nearly brought me to tears.......

As far as I've ever been able to measure with my crude gauss measuring devices there is no discernible difference in flux density achieved in Samarium Cobalt material with respect to opposite polarity/orientation. As Carl so patiently and correctly points out, the benefits of reverse magnetising are far greater in our application of these materials than any possible gain that may be acheivable from your proposal. Gosh, I've seen qualifying motors go faster with LESS magnet, but for gods sake don't tell anybody that!

But Stoo, you may well be right too. If you are correct I simply have not come across the same information as you.

cheers

keith

[stoo23]

Well Actually Keith, I'd Have to agree with you in regard to Magnetic Strength, as I feel Many motors are Probably Over-Magnetted,..(is that even a Word??,..lol).

Hey it's one of those almost indefinable things, but as the manufacturers of the Raw material go to a LOT of trouble to Create a "Specific' Polarisation of the Internal Crystaline structure, Prior to Maximum Charging, I'd Have to argue that it IS a slightly More than just Vaguely Important aspect.

As absolute measurement and the Techniques chosen to measure Flux density vary Greatly and the machines to do it Scientifically correctly cost a BUN Load, I doubt any one really has any True Idea of the Maximum or Variance.

Ofcourse for those that do it Regularly, with the same equipment, then there Is a Monitorable standard, for them to see.

As I said, my comments were more Scientifically aimed, but I will Still have to suggest, that it Does make a difference to the overall Coercivity of the material and it's ability to Hold that Charge, over time etc.

I also Do understand the Reasons people Do choose to do it,..but Hey, as can be noticed by the Magnets and Motors both Fox and I ran in Group20 Years ago,...compared to the Tiny Little 'Poofter' Magnets everyone Else was running 'In the Period', I have suggested for YEARS, that Bigger, Larger, more circumferential magnets were the way to Go, it is intersting that it Has Now started to Happen,..Again in Opens etc!!!

Ahh,..but people told me I didn't Know what I was talking about back then,..arguing Handling aspects and Many other Stupid and Pseudo science arguments!,..lol Commutation is What it is All about and the wasting of ANY energy in acheiving that is silly, Pure and simple and is Called Heat !!!,..ROFL

I was just surprised that So Many People were regularly Reversing Magnets and setups,..Never Happened in My Day !!!,..

Maybe people should run Cans that actually Protect the Magnet Better and arguably provide a More effective Field return !!

[FC RACING]

Stoo I hate to burst your bubble but but at the North Queensland drivers Championship at Slick 7 Raceway in Mackay one of those mismatched mashed up setups not only one GP27 Race but smashed the old total laps record by 50 laps.
The motor ran start to finish.!!
And the first 1.667 on King in in Australia was done with an Alpha quad that had dropped a magnet I replaced it with one of the opposite pole from another set up that had lost the same segment sent it away to be zapped turning that magnet around.
That setup has gone on to run 1.642 , 1.606, 1.600 and it still holds the current National record set at Mobile Raceways 1.592 So theory does always work in the practical world !!
And as Keith points benefits of being able turn magnets far out ways the slight lost if there is any loss from reversing.

[stoo23]

Yeah,..OK,..Look I take the points raised by you guys as apparently Completely acceptable,..it would appear,..but I wonder if that is what Beuf does?? or Did to set His blistering Laps,..Perhaps, but somehow I doubt it.

I am NOT trying to tell you are all Mad,..OR Wrong,..just stating what Is the scientific and manufactured realities.

Personally, I don't Care either way,..I was Just intrigued I guess.

If I had Not had the lengthy discussions I have had with the Guys who charged My magnets Waaay back and the Tech people at Hitachi Metals, I too would have been patently unaware of these facts,..BUT, you Don't have to believe Me,..

It Can be quite a Google Hawl, to actually find Good science and facts sometimes, but perhaps you ought to go looking for yourself,..Hey it Can't actually Hurt to become More Informed about Magnetic theory, now Can It ???

If I manage to find the time over these coming weeks, I will try and assemble a bunch of 'links' that can aid in understanding what I have been talking about.

Personally, I am of the belief that perhaps the Magnets Don't actually have to be as Strong as what one would believe, Unless ofcourse you are into Drag Racing!, as my research, experience and beliefs, (and here as well I am sure to be shot down in Flames by heaps of on track evidential examples,..again), that it actually has More to do with circumferential coverage and field return, thus Minimising Losses, than Pure Max Gauss !!

Anyway,..as I said I Don't Really care, it was just 'an observation' and question, from someone who has atleast Made his Own Very successful Magnets.

I shall remain Stumm and leave you to your current acceptable Methodologies
Cheers