GT1 & LMP

[stoo23]

In an attempt to try and clear up the current, past and seemingly ongoing confusion related to Body types/styles in the "Flexi GT1 / LMP" Class, if one checks the JK web site, there are NO listings of 'GT1' bodies, ONLY LMP's.

In fact the ONLY body 'listed' as a GT1, is the Porsche GT1 (a Real car with that actual model designation), which was a perhaps typically 'Snarky' Porsche creation which was arguably Not in the 'Spirit of the GT1 Rules' (it largely being based on a 962) and was realistically very unlike the other cars currently raced in the class.

The GT1 Class included cars like the McLaren F1 GTR, Ferrari F40 GTE & LM & Jaguar XJ220 etc.

For reference, see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_GT1

I think this 'Confusion' and developing 'belief' that there are actually 2 x types of bodies, started when the class was introduced by James at HSC and may have included HSC specific allowed bodies. I can no longer find any copies of the HSC Rules to possibly confirm this.

I only bring this 'issue' up, as I have had a number of discussions where people seem to think it is based on some 'definition' of Downforce of the various LMP Bodies available, and therefore the belief that certain 'High Downforce' bodies should not be allowed in GT1, which (in theory Would be correct), IF we were actually running Real GT1 bodies in the class, which, we are Not.

I think, moving forward it would be far easier and less confusing, to simply call the class LMP, with any and all of the bodies 'listed' as LMP's by JK being allowed.
https://jkproducts.com/13-bodies/s-1/body_type-lmp

So basically, there are in effect, NO GT1 bodies (apart from the Porsche) that have been being used in the Flexi class referred to as GT1, they are ALL LMP's
I hope this helps clear some of the confusion up.

[BYATSUYS]

Interesting topic Stoo.
From memory there were two high downforce bodies used at Hornsby.
One was used on the Flexi Super Wasp cars, the other was used on what was called GTP 12 (G12).
The Super Wasp body had a canopy and was smaller in rear wing height etc if that makes sense, whereas the GTP body was the same as the ones shown in the National Rules post on here.
I should mention also the GTP 12 cars were Eurosport chassis.

Now before we started GT1's the S16D was king with Commodore and Falcon sunset bodies.
With the advent of all the beautiful JK stuff the GT1 did not have to be an LMP body.
There were and still are bodies like the GT40, Dodge Viper etc that could be used.
They did not have to be LMP's although, naturally you could run them.

Now it soon came to be the LMP was king here and everyone soon had them on their Falcon 7 cars.
As far as I know the GT bodies are still eligible unless otherwise stated in whichever rules are being used.
I think the type of body is stated on the manufacturers web sites.
The type of body to be used on all of these classes were clearly stated in the Hornsby rules.
You only had to tell James what car the body was for and you were set.

I get the feeling that some of this discussion stemmed from a certain body that was used at SUYS for a time.
Those bodies may have looked like a GTP but we're marketed as an LMP and believe me had nowhere near GTP performance.
They may have looked like a GTP at the back but the rear wing was much smaller, similar to a Dyson Mazda in height.
These bodies are no longer used.

So,if you have ever raced a GTP12 or a Super Wasp you will know what I'm talking about guys.
Regards Brad.

[stoo23]

Thanks for the reply and further information Brad.

As suggested, the GT1 class and name came from HSC and sounds like it was perhaps actually closer to the true GT! reality, (although as noted above), LMP's were Not part of GT1 in real life,..

The 'concerns' mentioned, were Not from Any bodies used at SUYS (although I was aware of what you mentioned), but were from the SRC races held at HSC and SSME.

I noticed Charles R's comment on Kim's 'Seagulls' Facebook page that if it is just called LMP, it would quickly become the 'Dyson Mazda' class ??

EDIT: Well perhaps sadly, as can be seen here, https://ascra.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=1877 Charles was correct, as Everyone that raced in the 'Brushless LMP class at the "Border Bash" event at Seagull's, ran a Dyson Mazda,.... sigh,...

I guess you could say it is a Popular body, but has not YET become the Only body people use and in fact looking at the SUYS Podiums for the Flexi LMP class, it has also Not Reigned Supreme in any way at all and it could be argued that the SUYS podiums had more to do with driver ability and car setup etc and Not the actual body.
You've been pretty successful with your Audi's Brad

[BYATSUYS]

Yeah Stoo I am a bit surprised by the comment of a Dyson Mazda class when all the other cars we run all have the same body on them.
Slot car racers always have and always will find the best one for the job while still being allowed to run different bodies and it doesn't matter what you run on a womp!
But I do refer back to the S16D when we had the option to run a Holden or a Ford,nobody cared because they were the same thing and everybody was on equal terms.
Same with Wasps,Utes,GTP 12.
Even the Mighty Can Am Retro all run the same thing even though you can run many different bodies.
Cody has favorites body, I forget what it's model name is but he has used it for a long time now and I think the Audi canopy car is just fine thank you.
Anyhow I can't see anything wrong with the term LMP because that's what we run.
Thanks Brad.

[stoo23]

Yeah,.. but the point I was making was that it HASN'T turned into "The MAZDA Dyson" class.

I went back and found some GT1 photos on HSC's Facebook page and (much like up at SUYS), there was quite a variance of bodies being used !!
The photos are from 2014 through to 2018, club races as well as State Titles and one could Only suggest there were a few Mazdas being used, but IF it was THE GUN body, then it is odd that in 3 to 4 years people were still using other bodies !!

Plus the fact that there is Such a variance in body styles used at HSC kind of also suggests ALL LMP bodies were being allowed and used in GT1 and not 'limited' to some (theoretical) low downforce bodies.

That's 10 years for the Mazda to NOT become the ONLY Body !!,...

I can ONLY suggest, the 'Fear' is unfounded

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[BYATSUYS]

Totally agree Stoo.
My comparison between the body I use and the body Cody has used for a long time which is an open cockpit car, (can't remember the model name), was meant to highlight the fact you probably don't need the Mazda.
What I don't see in your pics are things like GT40s or Dodge Vipers and the like and I think you will find most of the bodies in your pics are sold as LMPs.
It doesn't have to have a canopy on it to be a Prototype.
However, like you I find the term GT1 does not relate to anything at all these days.
What I was suggesting however was that if guys want to nothing but Dyson Mazda's they will.
Up here we just call them Hawk 7s which is what they really are.
All you do is designate certain bodies into the rules as Foxy has done a pretty good job of.
Many Regards....BRAD.

[stoo23]

Well, I went back as far as is possible on HSC's Facebook pages pics (2012) and could not find any pics of GT40's or Vipers, let alone them being used in GT1 races.

I agree with you but think you may have slightly missed my point, as what I was trying to get across, is that ALL the 'GT1' bodies that have and are being used are LMP's.

There is No 'distinction' or Difference allocated or divided by supposedly being High or Low downforce bodies as has been suggested.

[BYATSUYS]

Yeah Stoo, I think I have been agreeing with on this.
All the JK bodies are similar in downforce.
I think when you start talking RTR LMP bodies there's not a lot of difference, from what they call a GTP body.
In my opinion these are high downforce.
I am not sure who is calling a Dyson Mazda a high downforce body because they are not.
If people are thinking someone has an advantage because they are using the Mazda and it has some super sort of aero is wrong.
I can only say that to me a high downforce is a JK Ultimate Peugeot body or RTR Warrior or a Outasight Cadillac or something and of course you have to go fast to generate the downforce which really isn't happening on the tracks we are racing on these days.
Give me another 190 footer and the story might be different.
But if anyone thinks the Mazda is high down force their kidding themselves.
They are certainly no better than what I use.
If they had a look at what Cody uses they would be astounded 'cause it ain't no Dyson Mazda to look at man.....
BRAD.

[stoo23]

Exactly

[David R]

Here are two JK Bodies from the HSC days . I can't remember what James called then but they look like LMP to me .
The one on the left was used for Falcon 7 and the one on the right was used for S16D
Do not get confused with the Sunset body used only in Superwasp or the GTP Outisight bodies used in GT12 .

[David R]

Ron Hershman clarified the difference between GT 1 and LMP.
If the body is open cockpit then it is classified as LMP.
If it is closed cockpit then it is classified as GT 1.
But looking at the JK web site open cockpit are discontinued they are all closed cockpit now and all called LMP by JK.